Comments on: Why Use XSLT in Server Side Web Frameworks For Output Generation? http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks A blog on web standards, accessibility, css, javascript, xslt, and more Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:36:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Anup Shah http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-6654 Anup Shah Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:33:37 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-6654 @Mike: Yes, that is a fair observation I think. XSLT currently is not as popular as other frameworks for generating markup (from what I can tell), and so what you find is a likely case. @Christophe: Thanks for the links. The Stylesheet Schemas is interesting, for if I understand correctly, the implication is that you could use this to test if your XSLT needs updating because code elsewhere has been refactored? (assuming you can keep the stylesheet schema updated without much pain when refactoring other code that transforms to XML, etc...?) @Mike: Yes, that is a fair observation I think. XSLT currently is not as popular as other frameworks for generating markup (from what I can tell), and so what you find is a likely case.

@Christophe: Thanks for the links. The Stylesheet Schemas is interesting, for if I understand correctly, the implication is that you could use this to test if your XSLT needs updating because code elsewhere has been refactored? (assuming you can keep the stylesheet schema updated without much pain when refactoring other code that transforms to XML, etc…?)

]]> By: Christophe Strobbe http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-6644 Christophe Strobbe Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:39:21 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-6644 Regarding XSLT for web-based views: Jiří Jirát presented on "ZVON: an XML powered site in action" at XML Europe 2002: http://www.idealliance.org/papers/xmle02/dx_xmle02/papers/04-01-02/04-01-02.html Regarding errors etcetera: are you aware of Bob DuCharme's article "Using Stylesheet Schemas" on XML.com? http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/04/06/tr-xml.html Of course, this helps only against one type of errors. Regarding XSLT for web-based views:
Jiří Jirát presented on “ZVON: an XML powered site in action” at XML Europe 2002: http://www.idealliance.org/papers/xmle02/dx_xmle02/papers/04-01-02/04-01-02.html

Regarding errors etcetera: are you aware of Bob DuCharme’s article “Using Stylesheet Schemas” on XML.com? http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/04/06/tr-xml.html
Of course, this helps only against one type of errors.

]]> By: Mike http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-6539 Mike Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:36:27 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-6539 Another drawback I've encountered in practice - recruiting from within a .NET 'shop'/environment - is finding XSL/T developers who are also savvy with CSS and mark-up languages to a 'web standards' level. Many seem to be either experienced in format transformations - FO etc. - or see UI development from a non-user-centric and non-web standards POV. Another drawback I’ve encountered in practice - recruiting from within a .NET ’shop’/environment - is finding XSL/T developers who are also savvy with CSS and mark-up languages to a ‘web standards’ level. Many seem to be either experienced in format transformations - FO etc. - or see UI development from a non-user-centric and non-web standards POV.

]]> By: Anup Shah http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-5112 Anup Shah Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:07:51 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-5112 @Andrew: Thanks for your comment. The ObjectXPath navigator sounds interesting. I have heard of others try this too, so will certainly try to look into this further. @Andrew: Thanks for your comment. The ObjectXPath navigator sounds interesting. I have heard of others try this too, so will certainly try to look into this further.

]]> By: Andrew Mayorov http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-5110 Andrew Mayorov Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:15:57 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-5110 Hi! You wrote a great article, and I could sign under every word. In our company we use XSLT for separation of data and view for 8 years already. It always worked perfectly. I could only wish this approach to be wider used in open source project. This would greatly simplify seamless wielding of different (great, but standalone) parts into greater products. Speaking of serialization process I'd suggest you to look at ObjectXPath navigator library. It allows for feeding object graph right into the XSLT processor thus allowing you not to serialize parts that are not required in this particular place of your code. Here you can read about it: http://blogs.byte-force.com/tags/ObjectXPathNavigator/English/default.aspx Release can be found in download section: http://blogs.byte-force.com/files/folders/objectxpathnavigator/default.aspx It's agreed that this project will join MVP.XML, but I can't find time for that for more than year already. Best, Andrew Hi!

You wrote a great article, and I could sign under every word. In our company we use XSLT for separation of data and view for 8 years already. It always worked perfectly.

I could only wish this approach to be wider used in open source project. This would greatly simplify seamless wielding of different (great, but standalone) parts into greater products.

Speaking of serialization process I’d suggest you to look at ObjectXPath navigator library. It allows for feeding object graph right into the XSLT processor thus allowing you not to serialize parts that are not required in this particular place of your code. Here you can read about it:
http://blogs.byte-force.com/tags/ObjectXPathNavigator/English/default.aspx

Release can be found in download section:
http://blogs.byte-force.com/files/folders/objectxpathnavigator/default.aspx

It’s agreed that this project will join MVP.XML, but I can’t find time for that for more than year already.

Best,
Andrew

]]> By: ASP.NET Is a Leaky Abstraction — onenaught.com http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-3288 ASP.NET Is a Leaky Abstraction — onenaught.com Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:34:33 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-3288 [...] (Indeed, a follow-up post does just that, starting by looking at XSLT in server side web frameworks.) [...] [...] (Indeed, a follow-up post does just that, starting by looking at XSLT in server side web frameworks.) [...]

]]> By: Jason Grant http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-3263 Jason Grant Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:06:23 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-3263 Good point about linking. I got to start blogging again as well (have spent quite a bit of time learning and working on various things, so it would be good to get back to writing a little more as well). Sounds like you already have a mini-book written out on the subjects of XSLT and various other complimentary technologies?! Good, good! Would also be good to see a 'guest' or 'featured' blog entry from Miguel De Melo, the grand master IA! :-) Well done guys. Keep up the good work. Good point about linking. I got to start blogging again as well (have spent quite a bit of time learning and working on various things, so it would be good to get back to writing a little more as well).

Sounds like you already have a mini-book written out on the subjects of XSLT and various other complimentary technologies?! Good, good!

Would also be good to see a ‘guest’ or ‘featured’ blog entry from Miguel De Melo, the grand master IA! :-)

Well done guys. Keep up the good work.

]]> By: Anup Shah http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-3232 Anup Shah Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:12:47 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-3232 Thanks Jason! I decided to make it a long post instead of many posts so that it could all be read in context, otherwise it can sometimes seem disparate, even with links to the other posts. In a way this is already part of a bigger article! There are follow up articles soon to come on unit testing XSLTs, XSLT MVC example, "Object Oriented" XSLT, etc! I too hope it becomes popular, but that will probably only happen if people link to it and pass it round! So if anyone read this and has a blog, please do add a link to it :) Thanks Jason!

I decided to make it a long post instead of many posts so that it could all be read in context, otherwise it can sometimes seem disparate, even with links to the other posts.

In a way this is already part of a bigger article! There are follow up articles soon to come on unit testing XSLTs, XSLT MVC example, “Object Oriented” XSLT, etc!

I too hope it becomes popular, but that will probably only happen if people link to it and pass it round! So if anyone read this and has a blog, please do add a link to it :)

]]> By: Jason Grant http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-3219 Jason Grant Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:28:52 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-3219 I am amazed at the amount of material you have managed to cover here (most bloggers would have probably broken this down into a month's worth of blog posts). I would be amazed if this does not become a No. 1 reference on pros and cons of XSLT. Once again, well done! I am amazed at the amount of material you have managed to cover here (most bloggers would have probably broken this down into a month’s worth of blog posts).

I would be amazed if this does not become a No. 1 reference on pros and cons of XSLT.

Once again, well done!

]]> By: Anup Shah http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-side-web-frameworks#comment-3213 Anup Shah Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:29:57 +0000 http://www.onenaught.com/posts/8/xslt-in-server-wide-web-frameworks#comment-3213 Thanks Miguel! Thanks Miguel!

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